Regarding the connection between the "Second Adventists" and the "Advent Christians" see what one of the Advent Christians himself says at https://www.adventchristianvoices.com/blog/2018/2/1/advent-christians-in-the-21st-century-part-1-looking-back .
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inseeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.
i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).
in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.
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Disillusioned JW
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36
What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inseeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.
i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).
in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.
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Disillusioned JW
I am also keeping a number of the books you list. The following are the WT books I am keeping (at least for now):
1) "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - with References" (Revised 1984) 'study' Bible and the NWT compilation 'study' Bible of 1963 (it was compilation of the 1950-1960 volumes of the original NWT) bound into one cover and was thus the predecessor of the 1984 'study' Bible. See page 608 of the Proclaimers' book for a photo of the 1963 book.
2) "Jehovah's Witnesses -- Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" and the predecessor book from 1959 called "Jehovah's Witnesses In The Divine Purpose". These books reveal some of the origins of the JW religion and the latter makes strong doctrinal statements which the religion has now abandoned. In effect the latter book condemns some of the practices/teachings of the current WT literature. The Proclaimers book led to me researching the early second adventists and its offshoots (some of which still exist), including the Advent Christian Church, the Church of God (Seventh Day), and the Church of God (Abrahamic Faith).
3) "Did Man Get Here By Evolution Or By Creation?" (from 1967), "Life--How did it get here? By evolution or by creation?", and the brochures called "Was Life Created?" and "The Origin Of Life - Five Questions Worth Asking". These are very useful to me because they include quotes of evolutionist scientists and the sources of those quotes. Many of the scientific publications quoted from are very interesting and overwhelmingly make the case for biological evolution and chemical evolution. Those sources also provide scientific explanations for a number of perceived problems of evolution theory. In many cases I would never have learned of those scientific articles and books had I not seen them listed in the WT publications.
Likewise the book called "Is There a Creator Who Cares About You? is useful since it mentions the name of a number of important evolutionist scientists and quote from them, though frustratingly often without mentioning the publication sources of the quotes. I manged, with great effort, to determine the sources for a great many of the quotes and in doing so I learned a great deal about the evidence for cosmological evolution, chemical evolution, and biological evolution. A primary source for many of the quotes was an evangelical apologetic book (which argued from design using science [the main title of the book is called "Show Me God" and it is the first edition which the WT quoted from; in a later edition the author says he now accepts evolution and believes that the Christian God used it). The "Show Me God" book is written by a science journalist (Fred Heeren). The book accepts the big bang and an old universe and it includes many interviews of evolutionist scientists. Learning of those scientists which were interviewed helped me to then research the ideas of those scientists to learn more. In an email to me, Fred Heeren says that in addition to promoting belief in the Christian God he now also promotes evolution.
4) The KJV Reference Bible and the ASV Bible printed by the WT. Those are useful books of very low cost, but now I prefer to use a leather reference edition of the KJV (with an illustrated encyclopedic Concordance) by Oxford and a leather reference edition of the ASV (with an illustrated Bible dictionary and a Concordance) by Thomas Nelson.
5) Comprehensive Concordance of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures". My copy of this is the edition from 1973 and is specifically for the 1971 large print (with footnotes) edition of the NWT, but it also works great for all editions of the NWT up through at least the 2013 (printing) edition. Maybe the WT later revised it to produce an edition optimized for the 1984 Reference of the NWT or for the most recent edition.
6) "Theocratic Ministry School Guidebook" and "Qualified to be Ministers" (from 1955). The latter is a predecessor to the former and it includes a history of the JW religion. Also the "1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses" includes a history of the JW religion. The first two books have good content for public speaking. The history contained in the latter two books is informative.
7) "Mankind's Search for God" and "What Has Religion Done for Mankind" (from 1951). The latter is a predecessor of the former. Reading what these books said about Buddhism peaked my interest in them and contributed to me seeking information about secular Buddhism.
8) "Happiness How to Find It" and related books about happiness by the WT.
9) "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained" (from 1958) and "The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life" (1968). I keep these books because they (and the "Listening to the Great Teacher" (1971) were the ones I studied in home Bible study as a child (with my JW father teaching me from them) before I got baptized as a JW. Those books along with the 1971 edition of the NWT and the Evolution book of 1967 were the primary books which led to me making the mistake of becoming a baptized JW. [Certain WT articles and Awake! articles critical of evolution theory also sadly influenced me to become a baptized JW.] They thus help me to see how I was duped by the WT. The first two doctrinal books also contain teachings which the WT later abandoned and thus are helpful in seeing that the WT's claim of the GB of the JWs being especially used by Jehovah (Yahweh), above all others, is a false claim. I also keep the "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" book since I studied it a lot after I became baptized and thus it heavily influenced my thinking and it is a reminder of how I was influenced.
10) Bound volumes of the Awake! from 1966 - 2005. I keep them because they contain articles about science. Prior to about the year 2010 I owned less than 5 science books (though I had a 3 year subscription to a science magazine) and thus the Awake! articles on science were of great interest to me (though those articles are very simplified).
11) Revelation - Its Grand Climax At Hand! (1988). I keep that book because it is the first JW book that led to me starting to disbelieve the JW religion - when I was studying it one year in the congregational book studies! I thought it was nonsense that the religion's proclamations/resolutions of the 1920s were fulfillments of (or even in coordination with) the trumpet blasts mentioned in the biblical book of Revelation.
12) Reasoning from the Scriptures (1989 edition). It was informative for me to read the evolutionist sources quoted in the subject called "Evolution". I wish I had done that prior to 1990 for if I had I would have ceased activity as a JW a great many years earlier than I did, and I would have seen the problems with the book's counter arguments about evolution.13) Commentary on the Letter of James
14) True Peace and Security--How Can You find It? (1986). [It is a replacement of "True Peace and Security - From What Source? (1973) which I studied (though with no interest) in congregational meetings as a preteen prior to my baptism.] It is a reminder of the WT's flawed thinking that trapped me into remaining a convinced JW for so long. It also contains citations for a number of quotes and if I had looked up some them a long time ago it would have helped me to disbelieve the JW religion much earlier than I did. Some examples are the quotes in ph. 18 of page 30.
I had thought of keeping the Insight on the Scriptures - Volumes 1 and 2 (which are a revision and expansion of the "Aid to Bible Understanding" of 1971) and the Aid book but I almost never used them and now that I am an atheist I have even less interest in term, thus I will likely sell them. I have Bible dictionaries made by 'Christendom' which I am keeping for now since they include some comments critical of portions of the Bible. I obtained the Aid Book from a thrift store in 2006. I do like what the Aid book says in the entry under "Epicureans" in regards to the similarity with modern deism, [philosophical] materialism, and the idea of "God is dead". It is also interesting what the Aid book and vol. 2 of the Insight book say under the heading of "Stoics".
For awhile I had an interest in the Kingdom Interlinear (both editions) and the WT edition of the Emphatic Diaglott, but not such much now, since I now have little interest in comparing various English translations of the NT with the the Greek text of the NT and with interlinear translations of that text. I also have no interest in Byington's translation of the Bible.
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What to do with old publications
by TonyMorronTheTurd inhi guys,.
it's been a while since i posted here, but i feel like posting again.. it's hard sometimes to find the energy to post here after i expend all my time working a full time job and pretending i care about the wt$ at the same time.. i've been trying to slowly wake my girlfriend up ever since i first posted here, and i must say it is a long waiting game that i am playing right now.
almost all my efforts are dismissed and i've been slowly losing hope.. anyways, what i meant to really post here today is about old publications.. honestly anything that has to do with the watchtower and jdubs, as of recently makes me feel like vomiting.
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Disillusioned JW
The environment is a precious thing to protect (and the USA and the rest of the world needs to do much more to combat climate change), thus I urge you not burn the books; instead it would be far better to have them recycled if you intend to dispose of the books. That way the paper content can be used to make more books or other paper products without the paper being wasted and with far less damage to the air. If your home has curb side recycling then using that would be the easiest way to recycle them. If you are concerned that someone might retrieve the books (and get deceived by them) before the recycling company shows up (or if you don't have curb side recycling), then take the books directly to a recycling facility.
However even better than recycling them would be to sell them on eBay. They might not sell much per book and thus it might not be worth the hassle of selling them individually online, but if that is the case you can put more than 10 books in each auction listing (though that will reduce the price per book) so that you spend less time on the listings. Sometimes non-English language editions get higher prices per book than the English editions, but only if the auction listing says you are willing to ship to countries outside of the USA (especially countries in Europe). If the books have content that might help JWs to stop believing in the JW religion, then in your auctions you can include quotes from the books that draw attention to such information. That way it will be easier for doubting JWs to find your books and buy them (and it might increase the price you will receive for the books).
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The WT fake chimp (for those who missed it)
by Mr Ben inafter a discussion in the live chatroom i realised some did not know of the watchtowers fake chimp.
i first saw it as a link on janhs old site, but i can no longer find the url for the original, which i believe was from the norwegian agnostic society, or something like that.
the next time a dub calls on you ask them why they are forced to believe that chimpanzees do not have canine teeth.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding the WT illustrations referring to Chimpanzee skull and Extinct Ape skull, I think I have found an explanation. a number of online sources mention that William King Gregory was curator at the American Museum of Nations History (the same museum mention the Evolution book regarding the extinct ape). https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Evolution-of-the-human-skull-The-William-K-Gregory-model-American-Museum-of-Natural_fig12_304906891 makes use of source by Gregory in which an "Anthropoid (Chimpanzee" skull is used to illustrate on the stages of evolution toward mankind. The shape of that skull bears resemblance to the one in the two WT books. The one at https://wellcomecollection.org/works/au6kdyhx (using Gregory as a source) bears very strong resemblance to the one in the two WT books. The latter source identifies the skull as "Anthropoid (female chimpanzee)". Another source with the same looking skull says it is a juvenile female ape (I don't have the link for that source at this moment since I am making this post away from my home computer). This is not a male skull (whether juvenile or adult) and not an adult female skull, but a juvenile female chimpanzee skull as illustrated by William King Gregory. I doubt Gregory was claiming humans evolved from chimpanzees, but rather was saying that an extinct ape that humans evolved from had a skull resembling that of female juvenile (but not likely infant) chimpanzees. I suspect that the later two illustrations are in Gregory's 1951 book called "Evolution Emerging: A Survey of Changing Pattern's from Primal Life to Man" (I recall an online source referring that book as a source for illustration used on the online site). Furthermore, since in the 1960s many evolutionist anthropology books said that Ramapithecus was a hominid and a human ancestor (partly because the teeth discovered of it by that time resembled human teeth [the front most teeth, including the canines, not yet being found]), ideas about Ramapithecus teeth might have been used to make a reconstruction of the teeth of a presumed extinct ape ancestor of mankind and maybe including it in the illustration that the WT had access to.
Furthermore, a book (by Robert Jastrow, I think it was the one called "The Enchanted Loom: Mind in the Universe") quoted the WT's Creation book, has an illustration of a presumed extinct ape ancestor of humans. A footnote for the ape skull in the lineage says that the a chimpanzee skull is used to represent what the extinct ape skull looked like.
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Watchtower Evolution Fraud
by Amazing inthe watchtower society first published a book on evolution in the late 1960s or early 1970s, simply known as the evolution book.
it is a small hardbound book, the same in size at the old "truth" book.
other than reading it, i never really studied it.
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Disillusioned JW
If by "all major groups of animals" you have in mind major species, genera, and taxonomic families, you are correct in saying they did not appear at the same time. However, I think the WT meant (or is referring to a source that meant) higher level taxonomic groups, specifically phyla. A number of evolutionist science books say that all of the major phyla of animals appeared in the Cambrian Period. An online source at https://burgess-shale.rom.on.ca/en/science/origin/04-cambrian-explosion.php says regarding the Cambrian Period explosion that "The explosion is particularly remarkable because all major animal body plans (each more or less corresponding to a distinctive Phylum - Mollusca and Chordata, for example) appeared during this time, changing the biosphere forever. " https://www.livescience.com/28098-cambrian-period.html says regarding the Cambrian "It is clear that representatives of every animal phylum, excepting only the Bryozoa, existed by this time."
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Thinking about disassociating yourself - STOP!...at least for a moment
by rory-ks in(this recent forum post about a letter of disassociation encouraged me to post this new topic.
it's been sitting in my drafts folder for a little while, but now is as good a time as any.).
my suggestion would be, try not to go down the route of disassociation.
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Disillusioned JW
rory-ks, regarding when I did it, "I wrote and mailed such a letter a few months ago", or so. I have not received any response/reaction to it. I am happy to have sent it.
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Thinking about disassociating yourself - STOP!...at least for a moment
by rory-ks in(this recent forum post about a letter of disassociation encouraged me to post this new topic.
it's been sitting in my drafts folder for a little while, but now is as good a time as any.).
my suggestion would be, try not to go down the route of disassociation.
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Disillusioned JW
Leaving the JWs by writing a letter of resignation as a publisher:
I thought of another way to gain closure in leaving the organization, other than by writing a letter of disassociation. It is by writing a letter of resignation as a publisher and resignation from the theocratic ministry school (or whatever it is now called). I wrote and mailed such a letter a few months ago. I had become a fader years ago. My sending the letter was not for the benefit of the elders but for my own psychological benefit.
I didn't like being on record as one of JWs since I stopped believing in a number of their unique doctrines and since I am now even an atheist, philosophical naturalist, and a secular humanist. Think of it this way, if I had joined a political party and later disapproved of the party so much that I didn't want people to think of me as a member of that party, I would be motivated to officially leave that party by revising my voter registration. Likewise I wanted to leave the JWs in some official manner, but without triggering the shunning policy (all of my immediate family members are JWs, though they are in a different congregation than the one I last attended).
The only record the congregation had of me as a JW was the congregation's publisher record card pertaining to me. In the case the WT Society, they claim not to have a membership list of JWs though they probably have records of those who had become ministerial servants, those who had applied to Bethel, and those who applied to be a pioneer publisher. Furthermore the WTs published total number of publishers (such as peak publishers) are what JWs consider to be the total number of JWs. Thus in some sense an inactive JW is no longer a JW, though they are usually still treated as one if they still attend JW meetings. Even if they are a fader who completely ceased attending JW meetings (even the Memorial) they are still treated somewhat as a JW (at least they are not normally shunned).
I had been an inactive publisher but I had ceased thinking of myself as a publisher (in the JW sense of the word) at all. Since resigning as a publisher (at least for faders) it not the same as officially disassociating or becoming disfellowshipped, I thus officially resigned as a publisher. In the letter I mentioned that I had ceased being an active publisher (in the JW sense) several years ago and that I now consider myself an ex-publisher and not merely an inactive publisher. In the letter I state that it is not a letter of disassociation (without stating I never disassociated from the JWs, since in a de facto sense I had disassociated from the religion and the congregation) and that nothing in the letter is grounds for disfellowshipping. I said that if they still have a congregation's publisher record card pertaining to me, then please either destroy it (since I am now an ex-publisher) or please add a comment to it saying I am now an ex-publisher. In the letter I also told them I have resigned from the theocratic ministry school (and that I hadn't participated in it for several years). Whether or not the elders carried out these requests of mine is not important to me. What is important to me is that sent them a letter in which I instructed them to do so and that I have a copy of that letter. I thus now feel that for all practical purposes I am out of the JW religion. If I were to later finish writing and then publish a book criticizing the JW religion, disproving Christianity and the Bible's supernatural claims, and promoting atheism, I won't be worried about someone saying aren't you a JW? That is because I could show that I am no longer a JW publisher, in additional to pointing out that I had stopped believing and practicing the religion years ago. As a result of me sending the letter I no longer feel the least bit dishonest in me telling people I am an ex-JW. I no longer feel the need to qualify the statement of being an ex-JW by saying 'though on paper I am still a JW.'
By the way, I was baptized in 1981 and thus before the baptismal vows were changed to say that JW baptism would "identify [me] as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization."
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The Watchtower & the cigarette company
by expatbrit ini: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications
1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking
*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.
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Disillusioned JW
Note the quote said "He should, of course, be discreet about what stocks or bonds he buys. When he knows that a corporation is DEVOTED ENTIRELY entirely to manufacturing merchandise that is used for a morally wrong purpose, it would be improper for him to violate his conscience by investing money in the stock of that company. - Awake!, February 8, 1962, p. 23." In the above example of the trust (and of mutual funds), the trust is the corporation referred in the quote of the Watchtower. The trust in that example is NOT "devoted entirely to manufacturing merchandise that is used for a morally wrong purpose" and thus the Watchtower is consistent regarding their action of owning that trust. Likewise they would likely feel it fine to own stock in large grocery store, though the store sells tobacco products - because the tobacco products are only a very small portion of the stores sales. Many years ago I asked an elder in my local congregation if it is ok for Witnesses to purchase mutual funds where a small of amount of mutual fund is invested in businesses which make military weapons, and he said that would be fine since I would have no control on the actions of the mutual fund managers. I said some Witnesses work for the Boeing airplane company even though it makes military aircraft and I asked him how could it be ok for a Witness work for such a company. He said that would be a conscience matter for the Witness employee if the Witness was not making the military equipment. Based upon that understanding I decided it would be ok for me to invest in General Electric (a conglomerate where a small percentage of the operations are in the making of equipment for the military) and in broad market mutual funds (even though those mutual funds often times hold a small percentage of their assets in tobacco companies). However whenever there is a shareholder proposal for (my investments) which asks shareholders to vote on a proposal to force the corporation (or mutual funds) to cease from manufacturing (or investing) in military products (and activities which harm the environment and/or cause global warming), then I vote in favor of such proposals. I have also called and written to the management team of my mutual funds asking/demanding that they cease from investing in certain types of corporations which I consider unethical. I thus feel that I am acting in harmony with my beliefs and I believe that the Watchtowerseems to have the same outlook about investing in trusts/mutual funds.
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Does anybody have a print copy of the 15-Feb-2003 Watchtower?
by DanTheMan inthe reason i ask is because on the wt library (2005) the second of the two study articles from that mag has a blurb at the end that i found rather bizarre: .
[footnote].
published by jehovahs witnesses but now out of print.
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Disillusioned JW
Various Bible Students groups still publish the Studies in the Scriptures volumes 1-6.
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Has the Kingdom Interlinear Translation been pulled off the shelves
by homme perdu ini was searching for it at the hall's library and i didnt find a copy.
i also asked the literature department for a copy and they said they werent familiar with the bible.
what is going on?
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Disillusioned JW
The Watchtower's book called "Theocratic Aid to Kingdom Publishers" (published in 1945) says on page 261 "Benjamin Wilson, a Christadelphian, published a translation of the Greek Scriptures in 1864, in New York, and designated his work The Emphatic Diaglott." However from my research I learned that Benjamin Wilson did not remain a Christadelphian, but instead co-founded the Church 0f God Abrahamic Faith. A Christadelphian church publisher and a Church 0f God Abrahamic Faith church publisher (namely The Abrahamic Faith Beacon Publishing Society, Inc. and The Christadelphian Advancement Trust) now jointly publish the Emphatic Diaglott. Their edition looks like a photographically enlarged edition of the Watchtower 1942 edition and even has a similar looking cover. Theirs has wide margins and on its title page it says "2004 Edition". That edition includes a brief history of the Diaglott and it includes a brief biography of Benjamin Wilson and his church. that edition can currently be found on eBay. The Christadelphian Church does not believe in a personal devil, however apparently Benjamin Wilson did at the time he published his translation because in his Appendix under "Satan" he describes Satan the Devil in personal terms. Many members of the Church 0f God Abrahamic Faith believe in a personal devil (info about the church is at their website at http://www.abc-coggc.org/ ). Regarding the Kingdom Interlinear, when I worked as a Literature Servant in the local Kingdom Hall, we used a Watchtower publication list booklet which listed all of the publications which could be ordered from the Society. Certain items, such as the Kingdom Interlinear, Leather Deluxe Editions of the NWT, Comprensive Concordance to the NWT, Bound Volumes, VHS tapes, Calendars, etc., were considered controlled stock items and were thus often not stock in the Kingdom Hall literature counter unless a member of the congregation specifically ordered them. If the Watchtower still publishes the Kingdom Interlinear, a publisher who wants one might have to specifically check the publication list booklet (or whatever is its current proper name) to see if the item is still available for ordering. I stopped attending the Kingdom Hall some time between 2000 and 2002. Contact I have with others indicates that the Society no longer publishes the Diaglott and they possibly are no longer publishing the Kingdom Interlinear.